The question I keep expecting to hear... but don't

What has been said:

474.1. Bruce (07/14/2006 03:23 PM)

Ben,

They are simply orthogonal.

474.2. Ben Langhinrichs (07/14/2006 03:45 PM)

Well, of course. That explains everything. LOL.

474.3. Carl (07/17/2006 08:09 AM)

Believe me I have asked that question to IBMers many many times, it's not even just eSuite and components, you can also aks why it's different to SmartSuite or NotesSuite. Why will they succeed now where they failed before? I think many of them are in for a big surprise when they wake the MS Office beast that is currently sleeping...

474.4. Andrew Price (07/17/2006 05:15 PM)

... and ViM and NotesReporter.

What's different?

1/ The components are independant of Lotus; their existence does not depend on making quarterly sales targets (perhaps Bruce meant they are orthogonal to Lotus ;)

2/ They already have a large installed base.

3/ Their data is in an ISO format (and XML to boot)

4/ They do not depend on Java working (I think). Nor OLE for storage.

5/ They offer complete functions, not stripped down ones.

As to Carl's "MS Office" beast, it never sleeps, but its roar seems to have lost its force. It remains to be seen what it's bite is like; probably toothless imo. MS has to reinvent itself -- that will be painful.

474.5. Ben Langhinrichs (07/17/2006 07:39 PM)

I need to amend my question a bit, I guess. I don't mean to ask why these Productivity Editors will successfully compete with MS Office, as I don't believe for a minute that they will. While I think the MS Office monopoly is crumbling, I hardly think that Productivity Editors added to Lotus Notes are going to be the kiss of death. On the other hand, they may make it a bit easier to have a Linux desktop, for example, and it is those incremental moves that will eventually hurt Microsoft, or force it to adapt better than it has, which is also certainly a possibility.

@Andrew - Some specific responses to your points seem in order. For #1, I am not sure what you mean. Were eSuite and Components 3rd party products that required these sales targets, or are you comparing with SmartSuite? For #2, that doesn't mean anybody will use the editors - see NFSDB2. For #3, that and a cup of coffee will wake most users up in the morning, so long as you don't skip the coffee. For #4, they are variants of OpenOffice.org, so I think they are indeed Java based. For #5, again, is this compared to eSuite and Components, and were they significantly stripped down?

I guess I just am not sure exactly why people will start using these. Of course, if they could use them directly against rich text, that would give them some existing content....

474.6. Nathan T. Freeman (07/18/2006 01:46 AM)

Well, if they're integrated directly into some of the library/Quickplace templates, and there's something to convert existing data fairly easily, they might get a great deal of usage. But then, I'm also a big believer in the Office 2007 interface changes, so maybe this inclusion won't really help.

By the way, eSuite and Components weren't installed automagically with the Notes client, and they were licensed separately. That alone could make a big difference.

474.7. stephen hood (07/18/2006 03:11 PM)

They are part of the core product which makes a big difference in several ways.

1. Majority of end-users don't need MS Office and the licensing costs associated - so organizations will drive it to reduce those costs.

2. 3rd party developers can get on board with more confidence since everyone that has Notes now has the editors. In addition it signifies a long term commitment from IBM by bundling them in. For example, there is huge opportunity for Ben to provide integration "solutions" between ODF (even PDF) and Notes RTF. Not sure if you would have said that about about previous scenarios but Ben can better answer questions about the opportunities.

3. Lack of undo in richtext will mean some people will do their bulk editing in the editors and paste it into Notes RTF when "finished". This will work for some and not other scenarios depending on the complexity (tables etc) but I can certainly see that being an entry point to the editors for some people since that occurs now via Word. Of course if Hannover includes undo for RTF that point is moot..

474.8. Ed Maloney (07/19/2006 11:31 AM)

Hey - Am I the only one who liked Lotus Components? I was sad to see them go. As for eSuite... it just seemed like a slow-mo train wreck (kind of like Workplace). Any way - I'm looking forward to the new office tools in Hannover.

474.9. Ben Langhinrichs (07/19/2006 12:00 PM)

Nathan and Stephen - I guess I can certainly see that having the editors integrated in, and thus being able to take for granted that people would have them, would go a long way toward encouraging developers to use them. Things like the undo feature and other "word processor" features in the Productivity Editors will encourage use if there is a clean way to paste or convert back to Notes rich text, but I am not sure how clean that will be.

Ed - As far as I can tell, a lot of people liked Components, which is part of what prompted me to ask this question. The eSuite tools seemed to hold great promise, but that fizzled so fast I never even found out what happened. That is why I look forward to the new tools, but I want to know what plans are in place to make them more acceptable than the former two packages.

474.10. Carl (07/20/2006 10:35 AM)

Ed - Most people loved Components. They were basically killed as they were not Java, IBM didn't want to fund ActiveX, hence eSuite came about (Ed remember one of the offerings was eSuite Workplace).

If Lotus had listened to the market, versus listening to IBM funding Components would have continued being ActiveX.

I believe the Office beast is trully sleeping right now and has been able to for a number of years. It will awaken and I beleive with a mighty roar.

Components were dramatically cut down compared to SmartSuite etc. but they were great at what they did, and had LotusScript integreation.

The best benefit of including the productivity tools into Notes is that it can help drive down profits at Microsoft. Why? For the same reason that Microsoft drove down profits at Lotus. Customers will be able to go to Microsoft, why should I pay 300 bucks for Office when I get it free with my email? The interesting thing is I proosed this idea 9 years ago when I was still at Lotus. Sadly the SmartSuite cash cow was still funding most of Notes development so the risk couldn't be taken to give SmartSuite away for free with Notes.